Stelco development - Notes from the Feb. 7th public meeting

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Swansea Community Meeting
Re: Stelco Swansea Works Residential Development
February 7, 2001   7:30 pm
Swansea Town Hall

Chair:  Councillor David Miller

Click here to see part 1 of the meeting minutes

Question & Answer Session
David Miller concluded the presentation and opened the meeting to questions and answers. He requested that people address day care and school issues first, and then proceed to other items. 

Question - Has REON looked at the volume and speed of traffic at schools?

Answer - Nigel Tahair (City Traffic) responded that the traffic study didn't look at speed of traffic going past schools, but that there would likely be a 3  to 6 % increase in general.

David Miller added that the City is planning reconstruction of Windermere to address the traffic speed problem near the school.
 

Q - School issues must be addressed. People moving into the new development will stick to their rights to request schooling in the neighbourhood.

A -   Barry Brooks: We didn't focus on every issue in our preliminary report. We did look at the Catholic and Toronto District School Board statistics. Budget constraints do not allow for new school construction.  As for the planning studies required for a shift from industrial to residential zoning, the City believes that it is a good thing to clean up a Brownfield.

Mario Silva:  In regard to the issue of bussing school children, funding is an issue. The education act says we must accommodate students, but it doesn't say where. The developers will be required to post notices concerning bussing on the site, and provide clear notice.

David Miller: The School Board gets NO percentage funding for portables under current formula.

Q - I am worried about how economically feasible this endeavour is for the developer, if you have to send kids to another neighbourhood. People may not be interested in moving there.

A - John Davies:  There is nothing new about having to bus students if an application is received in area where there is crowding in the schools. The requirement for notice of bussing and actual registration on title is new,  but does protect incumbents and is necessary because of the overcrowding. REON does take a risk, but this is our business. In condo developments there are fewer family buyers, and more younger first-time buyers and singles. Also seniors may want to move into development. Families will be more interested in the town-houses. The location is desirable, since people want to live near downtown and have access to the urban life-style. People will consider the schooling issue in purchasing, but will weigh this as part of the overall considerations of the suitability of this project for their needs.

Q - Eventually it is inevitable that people will lobby the school board to redesign catchment areas.

A   - David Miller: No money is available for expansion of schools like Swansea at the present time. The policy so obviously ridiculous that it will inevitably change as young families continue to renew older neighbourhoods.

Q - When a purchaser's contract on the property expires, will the school notice issue be binding on a re-buyer?

A Yes, this will be binding for 10 years.

Q- What is the catchment area for the Lakeshore condos?

A - They are bussed.

Q I have two issues - water and structure. What is the impact to other surrounding buildings? If structural damage is done to the other condos, what are the repercussions?

What about noise?  Will there be funneling of noises? Will there be studies on this? 

A   - We were told that there were problems at 60 Southport. We have prepared a letter to go out to the Condo Association at 60 Southport, as requested.  What we did find out, during photo review, was that the damage was more to underground piping and services damage. Apparently there was 1.5 million spent on repairs, but so far we have not been provided with any real information. We will consider this if we get the data. Also, REON will hire a noise consultant and will submit full report with application process.

In many ways we are just starting with the consultation process. We still have many months ahead of us to go through this official process. REON will respond fully to information related to ground water. This area has a history of marshy property and landfill, and we will address all of this. Special design considerations must always be taken where unstable conditions are known.

Q - If seniors are moving out of their homes and moving into the Development there will be an impact on St Joseph's Hospital, which cannot handle this.

A - The seniors are already in the area.

Q -   Can you extend photo sessions to adjacent properties? How do I sign up?

A - Please sign up now. It is unlikely that more photos will be taken, but we will show photos already taken. We have several from all the buildings.

Q -   Did TTC commit to increase capacity?

A -   David Miller: A TTC Route planner is personally involved in project. They will work to help with transportation issues.

Q - I understand that the land has swamp and streams under it. Is there any intention of conducting hydrogeological studies, and studies of impact on surrounding properties?

A - John Davies: There will be underground parking for 1200 cars. Excavation will take away a lot of soils loosely filled. Extensive technological studies will be done.

Q - As for public transportation, lots of commuters travel to the downtown core. With continued development in the "hotel strip" plus here, does TTC think service will be sufficient? What about "GO"?

A - Nigel Tahair: A "GO" station is not being planned. The TTC will adjust routes according to need.

David Miller - I am on the TTC committee, and know that there is interest in getting new station further west in Etobicoke. "GO" transit seeks to maintain its role as a fast commuter service from outlying areas.

Q -   How many units are in each tower?

A -   John Davies: About 180, 240 and 300. Final count will be known at the time detailed plans are drawn. Total 722 as per our application.

Q - What percentage is affordable housing?

A -   John Davies: Up to 25% as per Citywide policy. The 20-25% first time buyers I mentioned would constitute affordable housing.

Q - What about height?

A - The current allowable 18 meters refers to height allowance in an industrial zone. With this height restriction it would be impossible to achieve in a development of this sort.

Comment - Towers on the east or west is not the issue. We don't want towers.

A - John Davies: This is where we are in terms of application. The shape of the buildings and land use allocation are important considerations. We have provided view corridors to minimize view impact and have modified our plans significantly to meet concerns raised in earlier meetings.

Peter Swinton - The process to date has been that the applicant looked at density with current height restriction and it created a "very strong wall" - six storeys. It is impossible to market that kind of form. The townhouses at the front of the current design, on the streetscape, are low-rise, and form a pleasant streetscape.

Barry Brooks - The site used to have no height limit with 5 times density. At the time when City rezoned the site and a height limit was set at 18 meters this related to an industrial zoning which does not allow any residential.

John Davies - The site is zoned for 3 times coverage - 1 times commercial, and two times residential. We were comfortable with two times residential and virtually no commercial, so the density applied for is about two thirds of planning designation.

Q - We hear you're not going to do computer modelling. Also what about green space? It's mostly at the back, bordering Gardiner, and not close to the rest of Swansea.

A - John Davies - We have done some modelling. As for the green space, the CNR requires a 30 metre setback, hence the green space at back, but the entire Queensway frontage will be landscaped. There is a park at the east end. As for the underpasses, the CNR will not spend money on this. REON will spend our money with their permission to fix the underpasses. As for water, the park at east end will have a water feature. We will also work with the planned wetland enhancement on the east side of Ellis.

Q - Do you have plans to open up Coe Hill?

A - We have no plans for Coe Hill.

Q - Whether of not residential will put less traffic strain on community than industrial or commercial, we already have a traffic situation. Can the City get traffic flow moving south?

A - John Davies - Yes, that is what we have been discussing. However, the traffic impact will be more on Windermere, South Kingsway and less on Ellis. Our traffic consultants have told us a left turn onto Windermere is not a good idea, even though we would like it.

Q - As for the placement of towers, I live northeast of Windermere. You repositioned the towers in the plan in response to complaints of west-siders.

A - Blocking views is not something I would say affected our decision. The new plan clearly gives much more generous view corridors overall.

Q - Re the update on Meow, thanks for all you've done. The City must go back to court to try to close it down. How long do you think this will be?

A - David Miller - I will get the lawyer to provide comment to circulate to those concerned.  

Q - Victoria Masnyk (President, SARA) - Considering that traffic is the concern that it is, as president of SARA, I need to go to my people to have a meeting about this. Would REON be amenable to helping us get comfortable with the traffic impact by allowing us to do an independent peer review of the study you have done, to help us solve our problem?

A - Normally the review is done by City staff, though I've heard about smaller communities without qualified staff doing peer reviews with outside consultants. REON would be amenable to this as long as City staff are part of the process, though we would like to set a budget to do this. We would have no problem with a peer review, especially if this helps alleviate concerns.

David Miller concluded the Question and Answer period. He noted that there is more homework to be done, especially on the school issue, the built form, traffic, as well as others.

Next Steps 

Community meetings are important because people can have their say. Staff report to the Community Council this week as an official next step. The objective of the City and my own, is that this development needs to be reasonably acceptable to the community. However, we do want to see this development take place on a consensus basis if possible. 

SARA's Board will need to OK the traffic peer review and this will go to the next meeting. The City will notify people of next steps through the mailing list, which is the responsibility of the City. The next meeting will be the City's, and likely in late March, to mid-April. We will reach people by mail and in smaller groups prior to meeting to review the specific issues of bilt form and traffic.

David Miller adjourned the meeting, and invited anyone interested in viewing the REON slide presentation to stay behind.